close today. 13,755. that's a large number. we'll break out when news breaks in, until then i'm shepard smith canner for all of us on the fox news deck, have a great afternoon. "your world" is coming up right now. >> suck it in. the usairways and american airlines mr. jerry -- merger is on it. fewer carriers and fewer seats and this thanksgiving what is looking like a lot more crowded planes. so before you bite into the bird, get ready for a travel experience that could prove for the birds. >> welcome everybody, justice has resulted but that does not mean for the flying publicities or at the very least comfort has been served, because while the justice department just okayed the merger of usairways and american airlines do not assume the skies are friendlier, louder, maybe. more crowded, probably,

friendlier? let's just say not immediately. casey stiegel is live on some very anxious fliers. sir? >> reporter: you know, this paves the way to what we have already seen between delta and northwest airlines, and then united and continental airlines. now once again usairways and american on track to merge, to create the world's largest airline. that is, of course, if the u.s. bankruptcy court approves this deal and also if that happens, this will not happen until the end of next month. that is when we merger is expected to be finalized. under this new settlement, the airlines will die vest -- die vest slots at washington reagan national airport in d.c. and new york's la guardia airport, and fewer gaits at boston logan, lax, miami, and here in dallas. that means 44 fewer daily departures out of reagan, 12 fewer departures out of la

guardia. remember the doj in august, sued, trying to block this deal, citing less competition and higher prices in turn for consumers and those passengers today are certainly talking. listen. >> i think it gives us really more choices. it's going to make american stronger, which we all need that, especially in this market. >> very frustrating. there's very few flights out of regional airports. i'm from new york. i have to go to jfk to get to california. today i had to go to la guardia to get to texas. so, you know, it would be nice if there were more regional service. >> the new american as it is being billed is estimated toen rate more than $1 billion in annual net numbers and it's corporate headquarters would remain in the dallas-fort worth area. >> to mark murphy on an increasingly, well, interesting flying experience.

of course, he is the definitive expert on all things travel. the travel unscripted author. there will be a lot of people with unscripted comments. >> it's good for the airline industry. 85% of the traffic is now handled by four major carriers. >> that worries me right there. >> which means fares will rise. they're already up since 2009. so that will continue. so i don't think the flying public is going to get better options. they're going to get higher ticket prices. for the frequent travelers, they're going to have more options because now you can move the miles as the merge the programs between american and user air -- u.s. air and have more options to cash those in that's just business travel. >> the other merger had disruptions and delay, post the doj ruling and the bankruptcy court ruling this is going to get done, and then they have to

integrate systems. that's the challenge. you say with the state, they have now put in over the next five years, guaranteeing not to remove any of the hubs. that was concern of the states -- >> to your greater point here, there's still fewer planes and i always worry when that are fewer players. does that mean fewer options? >> yes, until one of the lower cost carriers says, oh, opportunity. when ticket price goes up, someone will go in there -- one thing that hasn't hasn't been talked about is charters. those were big in the '70s and '8s, they would lease a plane and live in it down and back to cancun on the leisure side. we're starting to see more and more hoff that. they're taking the risk of the equipment with the seats and flying with their own pilots down to cancun to deliver their vacationers or to jamaica or wherever. so you'll see people stepping in to fill that, especially ton the leisure routes where price

sensitivity it high. bins guys, we're just stuck. >> i literally got stuck. i couldn't get out and couldn't get fed. >> excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, that's me. thank you very much. in the meantime, now to something outside that going to make you sick and make your wonder whether any of this is going to fly, because thin is in and the obamacare enrollment numbers are not that heavy because the administration says they all but expected it. in fact they're better than their awful expectations. fox business network's lauren on making lemonade out of, i guess, fewer lemons. >> we'll see the lemons when the obama administration tells us how many people signed up for private health insurance on healthcare.gov, and we want to know how it's actually defining what an obamacare enrollee is. someone who signed up for a plan but that plan is sitting in the online shopping cart or someone

who actually paid for that plan? the washington post says the answer is both, and the reason is that the online shopping cart only has space for one health plan, meaning the customer must have gotten far enough through the system and payments aren't due until december 15th. but as every shopper knows just because you put something in your cart doesn't mean you're buying it. now, traditional health insurance only considers subscribers enrolled when they've paid. so the numbers is only going to fuel the flames over the success or failure of obamacare. yesterday "the wall street journal" reported that no more than 50,000 people signed up for private plans through the 36 exchanges run by the federal government. that's a far cry from the 500,000 expected, neil. >> it's amazing. they came in originally with such high expectations, like your doctor, keep your dog, going to be great. they should have low-balancinged it and said awful things, like i did with my mom and dad. all ds and fs, if they got a

c, they thought i was -- they didn't do that. lauren, thank you very-very much. put another way to explain this, you, sir, you get on the healthcare site, you're a healthcare customer. now former heinz ceo says any business counted its sales that way it would be out of business. >> pretty creative math. >> it is, the fcc would put any public company out of business. you accountants would wonder what you're doing wrong. next time you go and test-drive a car, that's a sale. next time you good to an airline web site and look for a ticket? that's a sale. >> so they are literally saying you get on the computer and try to get into this, you are an active customer, they have hooked you. >> best we can tell. they that been very forthcoming -- >> if that's what they're saying is the sale or a customer, then you and i know that certainly the percentages don't favor, than the anemic numbers they have are even more anemic.

>> absolutely, and i think everything is being spun. it's a dash and i think -- it's a disaster and if someone would say it's been a disaster but we're going to fix it, people might be a little more forgiving. the spin is just creating a bigger and bigger hole from which they have to climb out of. >> i think of you, running things. i'm sure now and then you'd have some bad product launches. i don't know, maybe the jalapeño catsup. >> how about green catsup. >> at what point do you have to tell your customers that, this ain't cutting it and get in front of it. we're novelty at that point here. >> you have to do it sooner rather than later to minimize the damage you do, financially and reputationally. >> its wouldn't be too late if they were telling people the truth you can't keep your doctor, i misspoke. that's what they call it. you dan -- >> do cow think he misspoke or was out of the loop and didn't know? when you had under lings would

they be afraid to address you and say it's not going to pan out no, somebody has to tell you. if the shareholders ask you santa say i don't know because it look likes you're out of the loop. and if you're not in charge, who is in charge? i don't know what is going on in terms of whether he knew or didn't know. i can tell you he should have known. >> all right. but we do know now you can't count customers the way they're counting them. just like you can't count sales. so me thinks when you launch something with specious -- >> i think credibility is at recollection risk here. credulity had to be checked. if these numbers are not right, what else are they not telling thus the truth about? in the context of this you're better being form coming, coming clean, didn't go as we plan, you can't or can't keep your doctor.

they may change it, i saw ex-president clinton talking about this issue. >> maybe they're concerned itself gets worse or better, a year from now the employer mandate kicks in and of employers, fortunate 1,000 players are going to realize we can't keep this plan going. so we're going to have to cut these people off, let them loose, either the ibm to private exchanges or public exchanges but they're not going to the plans they do now. >> most employers recognize that -- >> they do. you think so. >> absolutely. i think most are planning and i think they got a break on the mandate. i think the reason the mandate was put off is because i think there was big concern about what would happen to employment and harttime work, and as it is you have almost 15% of the population either unemployed or underemployed. that number will go up when obamacare hits and the mandate is enforced. >> the idea we could provide insurance to those who didn't have insure yeah, since the law

been lay we have four million fewer people with insurance. >> it's not surprising. these are the kind of things that happen when you rush into things and don't plan and are not forthcoming in terms of what is going on. we have. projects, delay them. you saw boeing delay their big plane. if it's not working, you have to say it's not working. people overcome that and i think the apologizing for it at the beginning, as opposed to being forced to apology -- >> i think it's too late. >> i do, too. i'm worried the whole system collapses under its own weight. >> bill johnson, former heinz ceo, one of the most and most highly regarded executives. if the white house can't get this rollout going, time for the tax man to get going? why art laugh for is very, very worried.

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here's the problem with people not signing up. you have to find some way to keep this going. you have to pay for it. what do you think happens? big taxes maybe? early obamacare numbers are missing the mark. former reagan money man art laffer says time for washington to hit the tax man? so, art, that's a worry and i think it's a legitimate one, because takes a lot for washington to just drop a law. so if it's on the books, they've got to pay for it. right? >> they say they've got to pay for it. i don't know what's going to happen. they're missing on all sorts of things. it's just not this one thing. it's everything, and if you look at the -- look at obamacare it can't work. i can't work, and the question is then, what do they do with the whole system? and frankly, i think he's got a lot of problems coming forward. >> do you know -- year a great student of history -- any

precedent for this where something came out of the gate, very large, and then they found there's no way to pay for it? war just become bigger of their own accord but a big domestic initiative that collapsed on its own. what i find more often is the case, i have too keep it going and they funnel more money to keep it going. >> the only ones i know of are sort of like this, when herbert hoover had the huge tax increase and the revenues didn't come in at all and they had the huge problem, and then they tried to do it again. roosevelt in 1937, raised tax rates again dramatically, again it didn't work. so i think the obamacare thing here -- the only thing is can't imagine getting a tax bill through the house or senate either way, just to be honest with you. >> you can find other ways to stick it to insurance companies

because they're being blamed for this. if you try to get tax hikes your way, they don't necessarily get the desired result. but now the administration is seizing on the latest fiscal year numbers that show we had record tax revenues coming in. why is the deficit coming down, and they're attributing it to higher taxes. what do you say? >> i don't think that's what happening. you were at extremely low levels before, and any type of recovery whatsoever will bring revenues up and that's what is happening right now. we don't have a big recovery. we aren't anywhere near the range of tax revenues we should have, and just spending is still very high. although way down from where it was. but i do remember one plan that did was -- remember jimmy carters national energy plan? that one had the same ring it to, the same flavor and feel it to that obamacare has, and if you remember, he did well, had price controls, excess profit tax, all these regulations. they recircumstance rated the

air on airplanes. he wore a sweater in the white house, and they kept gas prices low so we had longas lines instead of -- i think obamacare is like jimmy carter's national energy plan. came out of the block and was a failure at the outset. >> this is more teeth than law and more tentacles. >> way, way imbedded and to undo it is tough. the number of pages alone are enormous. they would have to repeal the whole legislation in my view, to be able to come up with anything sincible -- sensible. toy comment any major part that could be kept without causing a lot of problems. >> art laffer, a mess, a mess. >> thank you, my friend. >> thank you very much. >> these democrats don't have you convinced they're worried about the healthcare mess, maybe this particular democrat will.

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let's say you don't flip over your -- now you can escape your family. wal-mart is joining a growing list of stores adding more holiday hours, opening the doors at 6:00 p.m. rather than 8:00 p.m. when does this stop? is christmas day next? father is worried about us and we're missing the meaning of the season, thanksgiving included, which it what? >> thanksgiving is a religious holiday. the nation is thank god for the blessings with received and we do so together, with our family and friends and as a nation we take that day off from work, but things aside, shopping is not part of thanksgiving. and by changing the focus to

purchasing, we're forgetting about thanksgiving. >> there are a lot of people -- not me. i think that shopping is hell -- who equate it as almost a religious experience. they enjoy it and do it together. a lot of relatives get together after the turkey and say, this is fun. we can all do this together. >> well, we want people to have fun but think about what the focus of the fun is. thanksgiving is supposed to be thanking god for being alive, for being in a country blessed with freedom. >> shopping is not a 499 tv. >> order one online if you want it so badly. the shopping bother me. -- the manic shop shopping bothers me, pushing people over. >> have to be protestants. >> catholics do it, too. >> where does this go? is it that far off that stores will be open christmas day?

>> this is probably coming, too, and it's a sad thing because as nation we should pause and say to people, look, there's something more important than putting product under the tree or bringing them back on christmas day you didn't like the ones you got. >> how do you happen this withor parishioners? >> this an area you have to tell people use good sense and also remember that god is first. we take time out to do things. yesterday was veterans day. we honored our veterans, very appropriate. we should honor god in a similar fashion, take time away from ordinary activities. >> we don't take a lot of time, period. rush, rush, rush. >> well, heaven is a place with eternal rest. hell is a place of constant motion, noise, destruction and sadness, and we should replicate heaven in our lives. >> wouldn't it be a kicker if it turns out that hell is indeed a shopping mall. for me that would be pretty much it.

>> there's nothing you can buy in hell. everything is lost. but on the other hand on earth we should try to fine that time of peace and prayer, really. that's what thanksgiving is about. >> you're just shaking your head, what's happening to us? >> well, our nation is a good country. i believe that firmly. but we drift, and we have to remind ourselves, if we don't focus on god, we focus on silliness, plasma tvs and knocking people over. >> or hickory farms cheese baskets. >> we all love cheese, but buy it the day before. >> raftlift >> thank you very much. you mentioned something, confession after the show. thank you very much. you think you're safe from obamacare because you're not looking for a plan? you better think again. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare?

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interview. obama apologized but didn't say, i'm going to honor that promise. so, you know, even before 2016, the clintons driving the policymaking train here, and the white house saying today, yes, well, president obama agrees with president clinton. it's a very difficult time for especially the president, but congressional democrats. remember, obama doesn't have another election. congressional democrats are getting nervous about november 2014 with this obamacare rollout. >> i just found it a little ironic bill clinton lecturing on a healthcare plan that would have called for folks not keeping their insurance coverage at the time and that ultimately crash and burned. that was then, this is now. obviously he is trying to clear any potential minds -- mines from the field for a his wife, but she'll still be connected to president obama's successes and failures. right? >> absolutely, neil. both bill and hillary clinton were scrambling, trying to round up votes in the house, when the

bill was nearly about to go down. they lobbied some members on this. there's no doubt the clintons are tied to obamacare. but you see a little distancing here. unless this implementation/rollout continues, this is a major problem. historically, bad problem for the obamas and to clinton potentially. >> looking at the number part. i'm just saying -- it doesn't mathematically support itself unless more young people sign on. even assuming you fix the web site, and you hold off companies from abandoning their plans and abandoning their retirees and telling them, you're going to have to go on to private or public exchanges but we're not keeping you. that is happening in mass and it's picking up steam, which is not good. >> and i totally agree with you. a lot of noise going on, about the success of obamacare right now will depend on the young

people, the healthy people, getting into the risk pool. the in the numbers are not good otherwise we have breakdowns of which states, older people, so these are probably older, sicker people, that have signed up for this. now, where that goes, that goes to higher premiums and employers dropped their coverage and force people on to the exchanges, maybe that's a better deal for people, maybe it's not. >> it's going to be a different deal. safe to sea it's going to be different. what you're used, to don't get used to it. all right. robert, always a pleasure. thank you. >> thank you, neil. >> rolloff as they rollout. cash fog as you're trying to sign on. how you can spot some real healthcare hustlers. doesn't take long. >> this is christmas already. a gift for criminals that going to keep on giving for who knows

how long. >> how are the gutting the system? >> they're looking at it from a technology standpoint so we have hackers who are hacking the web site. the spanish version of the web site was hacked and people were able to see as social security numbers and personally identifiable information was being type. you have people going to people's doors and knocking on it saying we're from the government, we're here to help you enroll, totally false. then you have people committing fraud threw e-mail, over the internet. so this is a pan door are's box of waste, fraud and abuse that will get worse. >> if someone comes to my door and they're saying, we're from the government or whatever, should folks request an i.d.? is it usual that navigators who are helping people with this or allegedly helping them, is that how they do it? sometimes they good actually in person and knock on a door, show an i.d.? >> it's social -- first of all, have a healthy sense of skepticism you. show up at my door and see we're

from the healthcare.gov side. are you that inefficient you're sending somebody to my door to register me? don't believe them. >> you're a big deal. of course they come to your door. >> you're a big deal, neil. >> make you suspicious. >> absolutely. that's the first red flag, when they come to your door, because there's no type of i.d. they can show you that you would know it's credible. if you're from the fbi or secret service, that's different. if you show up and say wire thereto the government, don't believe them, but report it to your local law enforcement and make sure people know. >> if you get an e-mail that looks official come from hhs or united states government, most people assume it's legit. how do you discern whether it's real or not. >> they put something that looks like a url but when you look behind it, it takes you to a different site. believe nothing of what you see in an e-mail and only half of

what you hear. go yourself to the site, type it in yourself, go to healthcare.gov, not.com, not.org, and the government didn't do a good job of registering the other domains so a lot of people are typing in something that is very close, coming up with a site that looks official, they believe it and have this trust factor from the beginning that's just going to take them down the wrong path. >> these people are hoodwinking you and then getting you send them a check or give them your credit card info. >> or enroll in their program. and it's either an identity theft or deceptive commercial practices, where i'm get toking you to buy my insurance because you think you have to buy and it yourer in the exchange. >> incredible. all good advice, morgan. thank you very much. they say the apple doesn't fall for from the tree. i'm guess that i go did not mean samsung's tree. when leaders become followers, does apple have a problem to its core?

is apple now behind it literally? samsung announced it it would introduce a curved smartphone. apple is doing the exact same thing. why tech few rue -- guru says that does not mean this leader is a loser. looks like a copy. >> i'd say they always are behind the curve. they've always been a copier. the three biggest products apple has had of the last two decade have been the ipod, the iphone, and the ipad. those all came into categories that existed. they happened to do it much better than the competition and made hundreds of billions of dollars. >> was the ipod like the sony walkman? >> sony mostly walkman -- theree

mp3 players on the market. ipad was a superior mp three player. >> samsung is doing it and apple is copying. you have written extensively that it was built into apple's core, no pun intend. if sam sung does this stuff, does apple risk looking like a copycat. >> there's merit to that. so take a step back. samsung announce there'd going to do some things, a report that apple might be doing something a little under a year from now. so, i would say, if samsung comes out with something that is great and successful around the world, and apple then does something very similar, then i

think we can safely say apple is a copycat, lost their cool, they're not there anymore. but we're not there yet. >> you're a very loyal friend to apple. you don't just change with the fickle fates of wind. could you tell me the wisdom of curved phone? >> the wisdom is a longer, more rigid phone doesn't curve to your face or a different part of your body. we're talking out there in the future in terms of why we would want one of these. >> it looks beyond stupid to me. but i could be missing this whole thing. >> i just remind you, neil, the comments everybody made when the ipad came out in 2010, there were all these jokes, why i would want that. it's hard to predict these

things. >> i'd sooner trust you than me. thank you very much. i want you to look at this. it's the dow jones industrials and despite a hiccup today, up 20% so far this year and the runup has more than a few americans running to the stock market. derrick ken kinney says be careful. the general rule of thumb is that the closer you get to retirement, the more conservative you have to be. right? explain. >> that's exactly right. one thing we have seen is the market has doubled over the past four years, and who made the money from the market? those professional investors that saw the opportunities back in '09, took the risk, ridden the wave and capitalized on that. then you have the retail investors on the sideline, typically family people, may work full time. may be managing a business. those are the people that traditionally have always come to the dance late and wondered why isn't the music still

playing? it's those people right now that i think face the most risk on the precipice of, should i put my money in the market that's already red hot. >> the rule of thumb is that doesn't apply, if you have a ten-year timeline. you can ride these bumps even if it looks like you're buying at a high. doesn't always happen to be the case and ten years after the meltdown it wasn't the case -- or before i should say the implosion of the nasdaq. do you subscribe to that rule that the longer your time rides, the more aggressive you can be? >> it makes sense. one thing that the retail investor falls into the trap of, if the mark is red hot, put my money in now, make money like vegas and then but out. but people forget about volatility. as congress debates the debt ceiling and financial issues, the retail investor with a long are term time for example, that's the best time to be in stock but always be diversified.

never tie your basket to one egg, because that can easily crack and bust your entire portfolio. defirs fix indication is now -- diversification is important, not sexy, but the key to long-term success. >> rick from olarge don't send this: what do i do with the $350,000 i have in a cd coming up in 2014? >> cd rates are basely near zero right now. low interest rates are here to stay. i would suggest now is a great time to pay off high-interest rate debt with low-interest rate money. if you have consumer credit cards, consumer credit issues, perhaps a home i equity loan, consider paying that off and then think about how to invest based on the goals you want. maybe a son or daughter needs to save money for college, save for early retirement. the longer term the goal, the more aggressive you can be, but

make sure the shorter the term, realize the risk and do you have the stomach to take volatility right now? hope that helps. >> all right. joanne tweets: we have funds in 401ks, how do we best use the money and when it is really available to us? >> i took some of your text ear -- if with get money out of a 401k. i caution you not taking money all of the watt of a 4 other 1k. instead roll the money over that prevents you from paying a big check to uncle sam. roll it over, invest in long term and keep in mind if you can convert some of that down the road to a roth ayre ira, that money can grow tax free and lets the money work harder for you, despite to what congress might do with taxes down the road. that could put you on a better track to achieving retirement goal little.

>> good advice, thank you. >> he hit it big and now the ex wants to hit him up. i don't know. you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. i'd be an architect. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪ paying ourselves to do what we love? life could be hectic. as a working mom of two young boys

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they shared everything, home, business, even a child. but that $338 million powerball jackpot, that is where pedro drew a line. and now his former live-in girlfriend is suing for a piece of the pie. does she have a case. rebecca says she does, why? >> well, this happened in new

jersey. the woman, who is -- >> you have a problem with new jersey? >> no. in new jersey they dent have common law marriage so they can't be seen as they are looking at fairness and equity and how much they did together in the relationship. the child, the business, that they owned together. >> were they together at the time -- >> yes. they owned a house together. >> i disagree entirely. she is not going to be entitled to the fortune at all. they were not married. they have a child which will be relevant for child support.

but there was nothing -- >> do they calculate that differently when they know you -- >> certainly. they seem to be splitting up. they are going to look at his income anding assets along with hers and come up with a calculation and it will be more than it was the week before he got the ticket. >> it will not be 300 million. >> absolutely not. what's interesting here is at the end of the day she has to show proof the money he used may have been a shared asset. what i mean by that is anybody, you or i buy a ticket together, the proof she has to come up with is to show that they have bought this ticket together and that was the intention and the biggest flaw in her argument is there's nothing in writing. it is going to be an uphill battle. >> isn't it understood they were a couple when you buy something or no? >> absolutely not. they are not married. if they were married it would be subject to distribution. >> i agree with some of this. the issue here is that they own a business together and she is claiming he used the money from the cash from the profits of the

business. >> prove it. >> if she -- if he did, you are saying if he did -- here's a different story. >> again, you have to prove that $1 i used was something weding together. it is an interesting argument she is trying to make. she is arguing joint venture. we worked together. they owned a grocery store to the. >> if you used some of the grocery store money -- >> the law is clear in new jersey. it comes down to the written agreement. i think she will be flawed and have a weak case at the end of the day. >> i don't think she will prevail. >> you don't let anything get by. no one gets a break. my goodness. i'm sorry, santa claus. what the heck? >> well, i think -- she put ten years of her life into this partnership. now, not only was it an emotional partnership, it was a business partnership. the law of new jersey is clear. no common law marriage, but if you were with someone for a long time we are going to look in fairness and equity and at what you two did together. did you own a business

>> they made an amendment to pal moany and said we are not going to look at their u. >> it is going to be interesting. if she can find something that shows that they used their money -- i don't know if that $1 bill -- >> absolutely. >> i hope so. >> that's a lot of money. i think she is entitled to some of it. >> i think it is terrible. why can't he just be charitable? >> give her a lottery ticket. >> all right. meanwhile, forget the number of people signing up for insurance. how about the number of people who are losing? what was uncovered that will scare you.

from the land of fargo a no-go. a report showing 30 people, 30 people, signed up for coverage under obama care in income.

the number of people losing coverage in the state, try 35,000. this is a tragedy. kate, what do you think of that? >> yes, this is really concerning here. liked into this today with help from the brain room here. what we found are that -- other stwats high numbers of people losing their policies aren't flocking to these state-run exchanges. 150,000 people are losing their coverage in oregon. but nobody signed up yet for coverage there. and also, in washington, d.c., the report, over 20,000 people are losing their health coverage and only five people roenled as of last friday in health insurance. >> the percentages, we are told, is still under 5%. i don't know if how they measure that. maybe it is true. i'm hearing a lot of these kind of cases. the percentages have to be off. >> they actually do. this is a second bombshell. we heard yesterday late at the end of the day, "the wall street journal" reported under 50,000 people enrolled in the state-based exchanges in the first month of open enrollment.

we are supposed to be getting new number prosecutors the administration sometime this week, hopefully friday, to give us more clarity. they are all saying that enrollment is going to be really low. they projected 7 million people won't role in the first year of the aca and that 2.7 million of them would be young, healthy people they need to keep premium levels down. that's not looking to be the case here. >> if affordable care act is proving not affordable for a lot of folks or have to find alternatives, we are a year away from employers having to go or no on continuing coverage for their workers the way they have it, that number could dramatically change a year from now, right? >> yeah. it absolutely cole. the employers start canceling their plans, that means more people would have no coverage and they may flock to these exchanges. >> when you say exchange, it could be the private exchanges or the public exchanges but would not be what these folks are used to now. >> no. that's what we are seeing. cancellation letters across the board. what's interesting here is that these people who are getting

their policies cancelled and in turn have not gone to the exchanges. number one, they may be waiting until it gets closer to january 1 to actually enroll because that's when their coverage would kick in. their policies may be getting canceled but not necessarily canceled today. aetna will not mail you a letter today and say you don't have coverage tomorrow. >> in march you will be off our policy. and -- you are in that limbo where you are waiting to get on exchanges. barack obama says you are covered. you have to plan. you are not going to be without insurance. how is that the case? if you can't get on the exchange. >> if you can't get on the exchanges i guess the hope is they would back date your coverage. as far as penalties are concerned that individual mandate penalty we keep hearing about, $95 a year for not signing up, if you don't have coverage for less than three months, three-month gap in coverage, you won't be penalized. that's one thing to keep in mind. >> i don't know.

confusing. >> it is. >> all right. well, some people are not signing up. what does that say about the person who is in charge signing people up? former health and human services of what we should do. tonight. hello, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." you know, things must be really grim at the white house when bill clinton is criticizing the president's broken promises on obama care. this story can be so depressing, it helps to laugh about it. for that, we have to thank "south park." a managerial advice from them on the president or for the president on how to deal with people who aren't doing their job. >> i hired a new faculty member who wos